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tv   Larry King Live  CNN  July 21, 2009 12:00am-12:59am EDT

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whether to go back and spend that money. amazing to look at those pictures as always. that does it for this edition of "360." thanks for watching. larry king starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- >> larry: tonight, joe jackson exclusive, live unedited in his own words. for the first time since his son died, what joe knows about michael and drugs. challenges to wife, katherine's guardianship and the foul play he blames for m.j.'s death. who is joe accusing? plus the never-before-asked question and answer. how he said good-bye to his son. joe jackson exclusive is next on "larry king live." joe jackson, the patriarch of the jackson family is in las
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vegas. in atlanta is leonard rowe, music and concert promoter and longtime friend of michael jackson. before we get started i should say we got a lot of e-mails, blog comments, kings things, tweets, asking if we paid for the interview. the answer is simple, no, absolutely not. joe, i have not heard the answer to this. how did you learn of michael's passing? >> well, i learned that by some of the fans, you know. they called me and told me the ambulance was leaving michael's house, looked like it was headed toward the hospital. said the fire truck was following the ambulance. thad they said we're following the fire truck. that's how i learned. >> larry: did you turn the tv on right away in. >> no, i did not. i was trying to find out more things by the fans. that sort of the thing. >> larry: wow. so fans were the first to tell you?
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>> yes, they did. they always keep me abreast of what's going on. >> larry: how are you doing? it's four weeks later. is it any easier? >> well, you know, i took it very hard, but, you know, i'm sort of a tough person, myself. i took it very hard but i didn't let nobody know about it, yes. >> larry: by the way, leonard -- we'll bring leonard into the conversation shortly. how is katherine coping? >> katherine is taking it very, very hard. you know? she's really, really taking it harder than i've ever seen her take anything, yes. >> larry: were you surprised at all at that? >> yes, of course, i was surprised because, you know, it's the first time something like this ever happened to us. the whole world suffered behind michael's loss, you know? our loss, i'll put it like that. we all are grieving about it and still is. >> larry: how are the children doing? >> oh, everybody's fine, thank you.
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very fine. >> larry: how about janet jackson? you know, she stood up for the family at the funeral. i was there, at the memorial. it was a heartbreaking moment. she seemed rather shaken. how is she doing now? >> she's fine. you know, it happens with, you know, everybody practically. but she's got to keep on doing what she's supposed to do and that's try to be janet jackson, yes. >> larry: jermaine said in an interview he wished he'd been the one to die and not michael. as a father, how do you react to that? >> i can't. that's jermaine talking, you know? >> larry: how do you feel when you hear it? >> well, that's what jermaine thought and maybe that's what his reaction was. but he's living and michael is dead, and so that's the way it is. it's not him. >> larry: isn't it hard to accept? >> accept what, larry?
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>> larry: that your son is gone? >> of course. it's very hard. it's not just me, it's so hard for the whole family and the world because michael did so much for the whole world. which he never was -- never was -- well, he never -- the people never give him his just due. all of of the things he has done. >> larry: we'll get to some of that. when little paris spoke at the end, everyone, of course, was immensely touched and impressed. a lot of people were especially moved. how do you think she was able to do that, get up and talk in front of that crowd? >> well, she's a jackson, you know? that's all i can say about that at the moment. she's got a lot of nerve, yes. >> larry: are you saying it's in the genes?
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>> of course it's in the genes. where else could it be? >> larry: do you think these children might go into show business? >> i can't get into that right now, larry, because i just can't. they like to watch movies and things. they watch hit shows on tv and stuff. you know? what can i say? >> larry: i mean, down the road, if they express an interest. you raised a family. they all got into show business. if the grandchildren wanted to, would you encourage them? >> larry, i know where you're trying to go with that. >> larry: i'm not trying to go anywhere. i'm asking if you're encouraging them. >> i'm not encouraging them to do nothing. they have to be what they are, kids at the moment, and be raised properly. >> larry: the rumors you wanted to tour the jackson 3 -- >> not true. that's a bunch of jive. that's a bunch of -- i wish i could say what i should say. but that's a bunch of bull. a bunch of bull. >> larry: do you spend a lot of
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time with the grandkids? >> i don't spend -- i live in las vegas and they live in l.a. i go back and forth sometimes, yes. >> larry: where is michael's body? >> i don't know. you'd have to ask somebody that knows. i don't know. all i know -- >> larry: you're the father. >> -- is i was at the memorial. where they took him from there, i have to find out. i'll let you know later, larry. >> larry: okay, as the father, one would think you would have the most imminent right to know. >> i do have that right, but i'm not talking about that right now. >> larry: okay. jermaine talked to me about seeing michael's body and saying good-bye. did you get a chance to say good-bye? >> yes, i said good-bye to him when he was up -- well, when he was up there in front of us, you know? i say -- i'm saying good-bye to him now.
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but what the others say, that's what they say. what i'm saying is i do feel the loss of my son, michael jackson, who was an international star all over the world. >> larry: you didn't get to see the body or say anything? >> no, i did not. >> larry: to the remains? you wish you could have? >> i could have, but i just wanted to see michael -- i want to remember michael alive because i didn't want to see him -- i didn't want to see him laying up in a casket, you know? >> larry: yeah, i understand that. >> yeah. >> larry: do you expect to be asked about burial? do you expect to be included in the decision? >> yes, i do expect a lot of things, but a lot of things you expect don't ever happen. >> larry: how true. we'll talk about lots of things. we'll be bringing in -- we have not forgotten your friend, leonard, right there.
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we'll bring in leonard shortly. >> there you go. >> larry: hold on right, joe. we'll be right back and talk about the reported drug use and what you thought about that and what he did to help his son. back with joe jackson and we'll bring in leonard rowe as well right after this. 90s slacker hip-hop. ♪ singer: buckle up, everybody 'cause pu're taking a ride ♪ ♪ that can strain your relationships and hurt your pride ♪ ♪ it's the credit roller coaster ♪ ♪ and as you can see it kinda bites! ♪ ♪ so sing the lyrics with me: ♪ when your debt goes up your score goes down ♪ ♪ when you pay a little off it goes the other way 'round ♪ ♪ it's just the same for everybody, every boy and girl ♪ ♪ the credit roller coaster makes you wanna hurl ♪ ♪ so throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em around ♪ ♪ like a wanna-be frat boy trying to get down ♪ ♪ then bring 'em right back to where your laptop's at... ♪ ♪ log on to free credit report dot com - stat! ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage. so metlife removed the guesswork. cop,ining two essential insurances,
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♪ >> larry: what a family joe
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jackson raised. and joe, also with us is leonard rowe in atlanta, music and concert promoter, longtime friend of michael jackson. we're going to include leonard into a lot more in a couple minutes. leonard, quickly, were you at the last rehearsal of michael's? >> no, i wasn't. >> larry: what do you make of -- did you have any inkling he might have a medical problem? >> yes, i did. >> larry: based on what? >> well, based on his physical appearance. based on his weight. based on his actions. based on his mental capacity. when i was with michael, i didn't see the michael that i'd normally have seen in the past. i've known michael for about 30 years and i know when he was well, in good health, and i know when he's not in good health. >> larry: joe, what do you think of what leonard just said?
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>> well, leonard's telling the truth because he knew michael -- i'm the one that started leonard rowe into being a concert promoter many years ago. and he did promote my boys in the earlier years, of course. >> larry: what do you think of what he just said that he thought michael was not well? >> well, he was not well. you know, we tried to find out what the situation was, but a lot of times we couldn't get to him like we should. >> larry: you're not surprised, then, at what leonard just said? >> no, i'm not surprised. >> larry: the official autopsy results have not yet been released. they've been delayed a little, i guess. you had a private autopsy. what can you tell us it said, joe? >> i don't know yet. i haven't heard it. i haven't read it. >> larry: didn't you get a private autopsy for the family? >> yes, but they haven't reported nothing to me yet. >> larry: i don't understand.
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you're the father. >> yes, of course i'm the father. >> larry: so don't you have the right to say to the people, we have a private autopsy, will you show it to me? >> they have not showed it to me, larry. i'll put it like that. >> larry: okay. and you haven't asked for it? >> well, i figured i would get it pretty soon so i didn't ask for it. >> larry: do you, frankly, think that drugs were involved in your son's life? >> something happened, larry, it wasn't just only drugs. there was something else behind all of that. >> larry: what do you mean? what are you thinking? >> well, i'm thinking that there's foul play. yeah. that's what i'm thinking. >> larry: explain that. foul play meaning what? somebody trying to harm him? >> of course. you get into that, rowe. >> larry, larry? >> larry: you get into -- i don't know what you said. i'm sorry, i didn't hear what you said. >> i told rowe to get into that. he knows all that stuff about
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the, you know, what happened. >> larry: okay. leonard, what do you know about foul play? >> well, larry, let me explain this to you. during michael's final days, the final days of michael's life and during the final days that was leading up to his life as well as the final days that surround his death, that was a lot of suspicious activity going on in his surroundings. >> larry: like? >> michael jackson's life at the end was being controlled and manipulated. michael jackson was not allowed to make his own decisions. he was not allowed to hire who he wanted to hire to work for him. michael jackson was being told what to do and people were controlling michael jackson. >> larry: by whom? >> the same people controlling michael jackson financially.
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the people that was taking care of michael jackson. the people that was paying his bills. those were the people that was controlling michael jackson. >> larry: who is that? is that the corporation that owns neverland? are you referring to them? >> no, it was the promotors who were promoting in london which was aeg. at the time of michael's death, they were the ones that was controlling michael's life and this is -- >> larry: what did that have to do with foul play? >> well, let me say this. foul play would have to be determined with an investigation. what we're saying is there was a lot of suspicious activity that was surrounding michael. >> larry: by aeg? >> i mean -- >> larry: why would aeg want to harm him when he's going to perform for them? >> listen, let me correct you about something here. i'm not saying that. i'm going to repeat myself. there was a lot of suspicious activity that was occurring around michael jackson, and i'm willing to explain it.
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michael jackson, at the end, was not allowed to make decisions of his own. everything was being told. michael jackson -- >> larry: you said that. i understand that, leonard, but that's not foul play. >> okay. let me explain what i'm saying to you. when i say suspicious activity. >> larry: right. what do you mean? >> people was brought in to run michael jackson's life. >> larry: okay? >> that he had dismissed from his life in the past. okay? about aeg. aeg brought people in that michael had dismissed in the past. i found that to be very unusual. i was one of the people that michael jackson personally hired to come in, but everyone was against that. everyone -- >> larry: leonard, i understand that. but i don't understand how that constitutes foul play. >> okay. let me say this to you.
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there was a doctor in the house with michael jackson. the healthy michael jackson, the michael jackson that aeg said was in perfect health. a doctor was put in the house with michael jackson and he was paid a large sum of money per month. >> larry: to do what? to take care of him, right? >> yeah. why do someone that's completely healthy, as they say, need someone to take care of them? i consider myself healthy, larry. i don't have a doctor living with me. do you have one living with you? >> larry: you're implying foul play by sending a doctor there? >> no, larry. let me say this to you. >> larry: i'm lost. >> michael jackson was addicted. do you understand that? we all know that. it's not a secret. >> larry: okay. >> would you put a cocaine seller in the house with a cocaine addict? no, you wouldn't do that. >> larry: are you saying they put a cocaine doctor in the house? the doctor was selling cocaine? >> i didn't say that, larry. he was able to administer drugs. do you understand that?
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>> larry: joe -- i understand, hold on, leonard. joe, what do you think of what leonard's had to say? >> you don't take a doctor and stick him in the room, larry, and the doctor give him something to make him rest and then he don't wake up no more. something is wrong there. the doctor -- the doctor just somehow -- i understand he left -- went to sleep or something. i don't know what happened then. he tried to bring michael -- >> larry: are you implying that the doctor committed foul play? >> something went wrong, larry. because when they tried to bring michael back, he was dead. something went wrong. >> larry: let me get a break here. we ran a little over. i'll be right back. we'll ask our guests whether they ever talked to michael directly about drug use. more next. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days --
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>> larry: why not? >> i never got a chance to. >> larry: i'll go back to -- you're his father. if you pick up the phone and you call your son and you're worried about him and you know you've had some problems with this, why wouldn't you counsel him? >> larry, i'm going to cut through the chase on this. i could never get to him. i tried all i could. i could never get to him because he -- i was barred away from him by securities and all that type of thing. i could not get -- >> larry: they cut you off? >> that's right, larry. they cut me off. >> larry: now, what if michael asked to see you? >> well, that's a horse of another color. if he asked to see me, he probably could have seen me. >> larry: why do you think he didn't? >> i can't answer that, larry. all i know i was barred from being around there to see him. and you was talking about foul play. you want to know about foul play?
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if a doctor couldn't bring you back, this doctor he ran away. they had to look for him three days to find him. so what do you think there that's happened? to me that's foul play. >> larry: all right. that's your explanation. that's fair enough. do you -- what do you say about all these things that have been said over the years that you harmed michael as a child? >> that's a bunch of bull s. that's a bunch of bull s. >> larry: straighten me out. >> that's not true. >> larry: you never physically harmed him? >> never. never have. and i raised him just like you would raise your kids, you know? harm michael for what? i have no reason. that's my son. i loved him and i still love him. >> larry: we'll be back with more after this.
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>> larry: joe, sometimes in a family when a family member dies, the other family members feel some sense of guilt. for instance, you might feel unwarranted. do you feel guilt at all? do you ever say to yourself, i could have done more? >> well, i wish i -- i wish i had of done more. i wish i had of broke those gates down that had me barred out from him and went in and got past the security guards, myself. but, you know -- >> larry: well, that's understandable to have guilt. i would have guilt over that. what about that unseen footage, that notorious '84 pepsi commercial shoot made public by
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last week by "us weekly." pretty graphic. do you think that was a big turning point for your son? >> well, i imagine so because, you know, he got his hair singed off his head. it took a long time for that thing to heal. so it had to have some kind of damage to him, of course. >> larry: did he talk to you about it? >> no, he did not. >> larry: leonard, what did you make of it? >> what did i make of his hair burning, larry? >> larry: yeah. do you think it had a telling event on his life, affecting drus you and et cetera? >> i think so, larry. when i first met michael jackson, he wouldn't drink a coca cola. so as far as taking any kind of drugs, that was totally out of the question. that was something that him and i used to talk about quite often. michael jackson was against drugs and he was against alcohol at the time when i first met him. so i -- >> larry: so something went wrong. >> well, he began taking those drugs. i think that was in 1984 because he had a lot of excruciating
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pain. sure. and, you know, like a lot of people do, i think he became addicted, which he said and which he had told me before. >> larry: do you think it might have started, also -- joe, do you think it might have also started a lot of plastic surgery because of that burn? >> it could have. i don't know the reason. it could have started a lot of plastic surgery. >> larry: because he must have had a lot of it, right? joe, you all right? >> i'm okay. i'm good. thank you. i'm good. >> larry: let me get a break. i'll be right back with joe and leonard. don't go away.
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>> larry: joe, in a minute i want to clear up some business involvement question involving leonard and michael. are you surprised, joe, that you were left out of the will? >> i wasn't too surprised because, you know, that's how he feeled. that's the way he wanted it. it's not going to hurt me that i was left out of the will. but it happened. >> larry: were you estranged from michael? >> well, he left it to his mother, you know, as much as he could and i figure that she's pretty fair a lady to be able to be fair with everything about the will. >> larry: are you and she separated? >> no, we're not. >> larry: you're still a married couple? >> that's right.
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>> larry: now to the business thing. what involvement, if any, did either of you have in michael's business affairs? this is a note to you, leonard. leonard, apparently you have a letter dated march 25th addressed to aeg's randy phillips reportedly signed by michael jackson. in the letter michael reportedly says effective of this date, mr. leonard rowe is my authorized representative concerning my endeavors in the entertainment industry. is that true? do you have that letter, leonard? >> yes, i do. >> larry: how about another letter, dated may 20th, same year, dear mr. rowe, i hope you are well. after further consideration i've decided to streamline my business opportunities at this time. accordingly, this is to inform you that you do not represent me and i do not wish to have any oral or written communication with you regarding the handling of my business and/or personal matters. with respect to my touring matters, please feel free to contact frank deleo or randy phillips of aeg.
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did you get that letter? >> never received that letter, larry. let me say this to you, larry. michael jackson knew very well how to reach me by phone, by mail and a couple of more ways. i never received that letter, larry. this letter is back to what i was saying to you at first. michael was being controlled. i was not on aeg payroll. i was not one of their people. they did not want me around michael jackson, nor did they want anyone around michael jackson that they did not control. because if they could keep people from around michael jackson, that was trying to look out for his wellbeing and people that actually cared about michael, they could reach their goal of stripping michael. that's what i truly felt. >> larry: are either of you -- joe, were you going to go to the london concerts, joe? >> yes, i was going to be there. they didn't want me there, but i was going to be there.
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they didn't want me around my son at all, you know, because they know i'd be watching everything they do. >> larry: leonard, were you going to go? >> yes, i was going, larry, because michael had hired me to oversee his finances, number one -- >> larry: do you discount this letter which appears -- >> i never received a letter, larry. i have to receive it first. i don't think michael meant for me to receive that letter. you know -- >> larry: when was was the last time -- >> let me say something, larry. i think you are missing something here. i keep saying it. michael was being controlled. >> larry: i understand that. >> i don't think you understand. >> larry: he could get to a phone. did he talk to you on the phone? >> i spoke to michael. i was also in a meeting with michael, randy phillips, one of his employees, mr. jackson and his mother, about three weeks before michael passed. if they wanted me to receive that letter, they could have easily hand that letter to me. that letter was never handed to me. joe can verify that. >> that's right. >> larry: michael never said
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anything to you about breaking off the relationship? >> what michael said to me is, rowe, i need you to look out for my money. i have kids. i can't come back from london with no money. i gave him my word that i would do that. you know what? i was in the way, larry, like anyone that was going to look out for michael's money because i think other people had a different agenda about michael's money. do you understand me? >> larry: yeah, i understand what you're saying. you're saying this letter is not what it's supposed to be? >> what i'm saying is i never received that letter. i've never seen it, so how can i tell you that? >> larry: you're saying you were with him three weeks before he died and he gave you no indication he was going to break off with you. >> his father is here on your show. he can verify that i was with michael. >> he never received that letter, larry. >> three weeks before he passed we met at the beverly hills hotel. i was trying to discuss different things with randy phillips concerning michael's finances in london, england.
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as far as scalping of the tickets and things i thought they were doing was unethical. i was doing my job for michael jackson. that's what he hired me to do. >> larry: joe, how did that meeting end? >> that meeting ended with me out there shouting on the floor talking to larry phillips -- >> randy. >> -- they wanted to pay him in u.s. dollars and i wanted him to get paid in pounds. he said, by the time his tour starts, the u.s. dollar will be much more than the pound. >> which was totally untrue. >> that's not untrue, because the u.s. dollar was never more than the pound. they said they were going to straighten this stuff out and get back to me. i never heard from randy phillips at all until i called him. when i called and asked about all this stuff he said he never said that. >> larry, i want to say something really quick. i want you to hear me and hear
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me well. if people cared about michael's wellbeing like they paraded they did, they really paraded around like they was mother teresa. i told michael numerous occasions that they wasn't. if they really cared -- >> larry: let me get a break. hold it, leonard. joe is answering your questions tonight, too. go to, ask him what you'd like to know. don't forget our twitter and facebook accounts. back with joe jackson and leonard rowe right after this. their doctors about cialis. ask your doctor if a cialis option is right for you because in addition to 36-hour cialis, there's another dosing option: cialis for daily use, a low-dose tablet you take every day so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. man: tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach,
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>> larry: you described the actions of aeg as unethical. what do you mean, joe? what was unethical? >> can i answer that, joe, please? >> go ahead and answer that. you better. you better. >> larry, i would like to answer that question, please. >> larry: go ahead. >> larry, the first conversation i had with michael jackson. the night, it was a friday night, the night he asked me to come and go to work for him. this is what he told me. he said, rowe, i only agreed to do ten shows for aeg. i never agreed to do 50. he said i can't do no 50 shows, rowe. he said i never agreed. i said, well, mike, what is your deal? he said, i don't even know what my deal is. he said, i need you, rowe to straighten that out. i need you to get with randy phillips on monday morning and take care of that. he said i would like you to schedule the shows out and stretch them out to a schedule that is doable for me.
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would you please give me -- >> larry: hold on. you're wandering off. are you saying when they said 50, that was against michael's wishes? >> totally. michael wasn't capable -- >> larry: selling tickets for 50? >> i said that. he was telling me he didn't approve 50. he only approved ten. >> larry: we have a statement from aeg president -- >> do you have a contract? >> larry: -- on the number of concerts read. he said our original agreement with michael jackson called for 31 shows. it was our option as the promoter to only announce the first ten concerts, knowing that based on the response to the presale we could and would add the additional 21 shows. the presale response was so overwhelming that we went back to michael's representative at the time, dr. thome, to inquire whether michael would be willing to increase the number of shows. he reported that michael was willing to increase the number of performance to 50. i would expect that aeg is going to probably dispute these
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allegations tonight. they're saying michael agreed to it. could that be after he spoke to you? >> let me say this, larry -- no, it couldn't be. >> larry: you're saying they're lying? >> let me say this. they'll say anything, okay? what they should do is produce to you a contract showing what was signed by michael to do 50. do you have that? >> larry: i don't have any contract, no. okay. >> you have my contract with michael. you have that one. >> larry: yeah, i think we have that. >> yes, you do. >> larry: joe, "people" magazine quotes what is described as a source close to the family as saying you're willing to sign papers saying that you don't live with katherine and won't be involved in raising michael's kids. is that true or false? >> i never said i wasn't going to sign any papers to that effect. but -- >> larry: there's a lot flying around here. >> they got wings. they fly around with a lot of stuff that's not true.
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>> larry: we have a blog question for joe. a blog question posted on the larry king blog for joe. did michael convert to islam? was he a muslim when he died? >> joe don't know that, larry. >> i don't know that. >> larry: okay. joe, what do you make of the document that's been filed in court as michael's will? do you have any complaints about his will? >> well, i don't like the people -- all these people that was involved with the will -- michael fired those people. now all of a sudden they're popping back up here. >> larry, there was a lot of complaints about the will. not about the will. no one is contesting the will. so let me say that and let me repeat myself. no one is contesting the will. what may be contested is the trustees of the will because there's a question whether michael jackson wanted these people, that's trustees over the will, in place at the time of his death. >> larry: joe, do you have any -- >> i'm sorry, larry, these are people michael dismissed from his life earlier. >> larry: i got you.
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joe, do you have any at all bad feelings about the way michael was raised? i know you're denying the stories about violence. as you look at it, were there any mistakes you made? >> i didn't make no mistakes, larry. michael was raised properly. he didn't run the streets like most of those other kids that was in his neighborhood. listen, listen. listen, now. you've got to understand me. don't cut me off here, larry. michael claims that he had a -- michael had his own brothers and sisters to play with. most of those kids that was michael's age during their time, they're not living now. so, you know -- >> larry: when he -- didn't he once say you were physically/emotionally abusive to him? >> i've never been abusive to him. never have. >> larry: did he say that? did he ever say that to your knowledge?
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>> i don't know what he said. the media keep hollering i abuse my son. >> larry -- could i say something, joe? >> wait, rowe, let me handle this. let me handle this. the media keep hollering about saying i beat michael. that's not true. beat started in the slavery days. they used to beat the slaves and used to torture them. that's where this beating started. these slavemasters. that's where that comes from. but, hey, there's a lot of people in america, larry, a lot of people in america spank their kids, you know? if they say they don't, they're lying. they're lying. michael was never beaten by me. never beaten at all. >> larry: you're on record. was joe jackson responsible for the kids' success? that's tonight's quick-vote question. go to, tell us what you think. so far, by the way, the majority says yes. the father was responsible for the success. back in 60 seconds. e my life is split in two. there's the life i live.
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and the life i want to live. fortunately, there's enbrel. enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness, fatigue, and stop joint damage. because enbrel suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma and nervous system... and blood disorders have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis. also ask your doctor if you live in an area... with a greater risk for certain fungal infections. don't start enbrel if you have an infection, like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if, while on enbrel, you experience persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. help bridge the gap. ask your rheumatologist... if enbrel is right for you, and about our co-pay and financial support programs. >> larry: joe, another twitter
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question. if you could do it over with michael, raising, what would you do differently? >> are you speaking to me? >> larry: yeah, joe. what would you do differently if you could do it all over again? >> well, i tell you what i would do differently. i think i would make sure that all this media talk about what i'm doing to michael and the family, hey, i would be more cautious about the media because the media can -- well, you know, naturally they do all this stuff for ratings and they get a check. they get a check for all this stuff they put out. most of this stuff is not true. it's not fair. >> larry: you think you should have handled it better initially? >> not too much better i could have done. i was working two jobs and promoting my boys as well and i kept them eating and that's a lot to do. but i did it.
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>> larry: back with some more of joe and leonard. don't go away. can i tell you what a difference phillips' colon health has made? it's the probiotics. the good bacteria. that gets your colon back in balance. i'm good to go! phillips' colon health.
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>> larry: john king sits in for anderson cooper. he'll host "ac 360." john, what's up? >> larry, fascination conversation. we will have more on the michael jackson including the latest details on the investigation and the big question, whether or not criminal charges might be filed in jackson's death. plus president obama's health care plan on the ropes. the crown jewel of candidate obama's campaign platform but some in his own democratic party threatening to derail it.
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how a compromise might be reached and how that will affect the future of your health care. new details in the billings murder in florida. a past relationship between billings and one of the suspects. police are looking at what they are calling a second motive in the killing. we'll talk to the sheriff right here tonight. all that at the top of the hour on "360." >> larry: that's john king, 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. couple other quick things, fellows, from our blog. what, joe is, your favorite michael song? >> the earth song. i like the earth song that he always sang about the animals and all that stuff. he was crazy about animals. >> larry: how do you think he will be remembered? >> well, he should be remembered -- well, how he will be remembered all over the world? >> larry: yeah. >> because he was a fan to everybody all over the world and also he's in the guinness book of world records for selling more records than anybody in show business history.
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he should be remembered by that. i wish he could have -- go ahead. i'm sorry. >> larry: it stands on its own. leonard, do you think the legal issues are going to be resolved? >> which legal issues? >> larry: the question of whether you had any part of this, they had your charges about aeg. there's a lot up in the air here. >> larry, i couldn't answer that question. i know nothing about legal charges about aeg or nothing. >> larry: i mean, you have made statements about aeg. do you think that might ever be resolved? >> larry, i hope that because of the suspicious nature of michael's death, i hope that we have a congressional investigation into michael's death. that is something that i have spoke to joe about and i'll be speaking to his mother about and we will be asking the congress to do that.
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because -- >> larry: joe, do you support that idea? we are almost out of time. joe, do you support that? >> of course, i do. i want to find out all i can about his situation with certain people. for tombmy. he is no doctor. he has eight or nine aliases. >> larry: we are going to do more on this. joe jackson and leonard rowe. thank you. tomorrow night liz cheney and a week from tomorrow night an hour with colin powell. some serious allegations have been made about aeg here tonight. i suspect aeg will likely dispute the charges being leveled. debbie rowe has stayed out of the spotlight. her good friend is here to tell us why, next.
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>> larry: we now welcome iris finsilver to "larry king live." a return visit from the former attorney for michael jackson's ex-wife, debbie rowe and still a close friend of debbie's. what did you make of the joe jackson interview? >> well, i think it is a real bombshell, larry. it is certainly surprising a lot of the things that were said today. >> larry: when did you last have contact with debbie? >> last friday. >> larry: not long ago. how is she doing? >> i try to talk to her every day. >> larry: has she seen the children? >> no. not yet. >> larry: what does she plan to do? custody hearing has been postponed, right? >> correct. it is my understanding the family would try to work something out. i believe that is what the judge said in open court. that's always the best thing to do in a family situation is to have the parent, the grandparent sit down and talk about what their concerns are, what they might be afraid of. >> larry: what does debbie want with her children?
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>> well, obviously she would like to have a relationship with her children. >> larry: not custody? you don't know? >> i don't know if she wants every day hands-on custody of the kids. the thing is when she was married to michael and having children with michael she wanted to be a part of their lives but she recognized in her mind that michael would be a better parent. >> larry: she did? >> yes. she thought he would be a great -- >> larry: with all the rumors swirling around, did she ever tell you michael wasn't the father? >> i know that michael was the father. >> larry: was the father. >> 100% michael is the father of those two children. yes. >> larry: if it is not custody, do you think an arrangement will be worked out? >> i think so. i would hope so certainly. >> larry: why do people have negative feelings about debbie, do you think? >> i think the jackson family doesn't know debbie. michael knew debbie. i don't think katherine has ever met debbie as far as i know.
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i don't think joe has ever met debbie. i don't know about the brothers and the sisters. i think because they don't know her, they're fearful that she might do something or say something or, you know, it's -- >> larry: she blew up at some paparazzi a couple weeks ago, last week i think. did that surprise you? >> no. it's not in her character to blow up. it didn't surprise me to see a pack of photographers on her heels and for her to make a comment like that. i think she has been very upset. i have spoken to her about it. she has had the paparazzi camped outside of her house. >> larry: still? >> still. still. >> larry: how has all of this changed -- you knew her before michael, right? >> yes. i've known debbie before, during an after. >> larry: events change life, right? >> absolutely. >> larry: people don't change, circumstances change. how has she changed? >> debbie is still the same caring, loving person. debbie has always loved those children. i want to tell you something
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about her kids. she used to have pictures in her house of herself with her children. one day i went to the closet and it was like a shrine in the closet with all these pictures. i said, debbie, why do you have all the pictures of the kids in your closet? she said i can't leave them out. when people come in, they steal the photographs. >> larry: what is wrong with that? >> she doesn't want her guests to steal photographs of her children. >> larry: oh, steal them. >> steal them. yes. >> larry: why do you think she doesn't want them now? she thought michael would be a better father but he is gone. did she think katherine was a good mother, be a good grandmother? >> i don't want to put those thoughts out there. she wants to step up to the plate. she's always loved those children, larry. always. >> larry: is she very emotionally distraught over michael's death? >> yes. yes. she loved him more than any other person in the world.
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you asked me a question, larry. you asked me, did i see this change in debbie? and i remember the night that she was leaving beverly hills to fly to australia to get married to michael. and i said, debbie, your world is going to change completely. she said, no, no. i'm still going to be the same me and she skipped out the door and ran off to get married. she really had no idea that the world would be interested in her. >> larry: why did they break up? >> i really don't know the exact facts. i think that she didn't like life in the public eye. she had been in paris with him. she had gone on various tours with him. >> larry: it wasn't her style? >> it's not her style. >> larry: was that in vitro with michael or was it through natural sex? >> that i don't know. i know they had sex together. she told me. >> larry: you have no about
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that, right? >> that debbie had -- >> larry: sex with michael. >> i have no doubt. i wasn't in the bedroom. i have no doubt when she would tell me little things about their private life -- >> larry: will you attend the custody hearing when she attends? >> no. i don't believe so. >> larry: why not? you are her friend, you were her lawyer. >> i'm her friend. i'm there for her in her personal life. i want to stay out of the courtroom when she's in the courtroom. >> larry: you do think it will be resolved so she can get sitation, katherine will raise them. they will work it out? >> i think if the jackson family gets to know debbie and sit do and talk to her, whatever fears they are thinking -- >> larry: they'll work it out. >> lry: grease . finsi


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